The 24 hour conversation is over.

My immediate reflections are positive. I really think that the organisers have pulled off a successful event, in what was a very challenging format. Proposing to host a continuous conversation with 200 people, multiple speakers, plenty of prominent Mancunian advocates and a number of celebrities (not to mention a couple of ego’s), was a brave move.

As a ’stop gap event’, the TWE has probably raised a good number of complications about how a more permanent memorial to Tony Wilson should take shape. Talk of a summer school was still evident in some quarters over the last day or so, plus calls from Peter Saville to repeat the conversation next year.

What Manchester City Councils stance is on that is yet to be seen. But everyone at the Council should be very happy with this weekend. Sarah Benjamins, the project manager at MCC, should be applauded for managing the City’s input. Similarly, Sir Richard Leese, Leader of the council has shown a side that most people would perhaps never see - the willingness to engage in open and transparent conversation at a forum like this.

I was particularly impressed with his interjection during one of the sessions, where he implored people to look forward…that’s what the ‘talent’ and the discussion was there for - to look forward and shape the city as a valuable part of the regional and wider economic development. At a time when many were in retrospective mood, I thought it was a timely reminder.

Similarly, everyone else involved in the organisation and delivery should be pretty pleased. Obviously, there’s always things to learn and build on…so from my perspective (and from talking to a few people in attendance) what could make it better next time?

I heard from a couple of people that the conversation was a little mono directional at times, with not enough opportunity for the talent to question the experienced. Indeed, I’m echoing Paul Robinsons comment that even when appealing for a little more chaos, the “rowdy ones were always shut up“. That’s a shame, as it seems that much about the people and activity being remembered were just that, a little chaotic.

A difficult line to tread. However, perhaps the active internet stream forum on Mogulus could have been fed into the tent for those who couldn’t attend to have had a chance to enter the conversation. This would certainly have opened up the dialogue a little and perhaps prompted more discussion inside. Generating lively discussion is difficult, especially for 24 hours and perhaps if the more ‘unconference’ style of some gatherings had been followed then the level of discussion may have been even lower. To have an agenda that just said “turn up and talk’ could have led to a very flat event indeed.

Having said that, there’s definitely opportunity for social tools and some of the methods used amongst the social media crowd to have more of a prominence next time. Some sessions could have been more like workshops and the restriction on photography and video lifted. Harnessing sites like Flickr and Twitter could have helped build more of a real time presence on the web than was evident this time.

Even more, a reworking of the green room could have helped as discouraging true mixing of the experienced and talented was sometimes reflected in the conversations. A bit of a ‘them and us’ feel that was commented upon a couple of times to me. Some more intimate break out sessions, wouldn’t have gone amiss and helped the talent get closer to the experienced. After all, we know that it’s difficult to walk up to someone you admire and strike up a conversation.

So, a difficult challenge. The organisers set themselves a format that was a tough ask. All in all, they pulled it off.

One final thought. I hope we at i4SM get a chance to talk to Peter Saville about our vision for the Institute.  That’s a conversation we’d really relish.

Over and out.

-pc.

Some background before we get into the next session:

Ben Kelly designed FAC51, otherwise known as the Hacienda. My wife, Jackie, spent many an evening and early morning in that building and it’s shaped, in some small part, her adult life. It’s not just about the music - the vibe must also have been created by the industrial feel to the Hacienda that was so starkly different to the standard look of the local discotheque. Me, I was into indie, but my club stomping ground was The Jenks Bar in Blackpool. It’s not quite as well known as the Hacienda.

Tom Bloxham is the founder and owner of Urban Splash, one of the most prolific property development companies in Manchester…and beyond for that matter. I’m itching to go to the Midland Hotel now that it’s been restored…and this is key to Urban Splash strategy - redevelopment as opposed to razing and rebuilding.

Peter Saville is joining them on the sofa’s. But first…

Frank Sidebottom has just been on doing, in his own inimitable style, a tribute to Manchester, Factory and Tony Wilson. I’m hoping that the video will be available after the fact…as it was quite a performance.

Fortunately, Mr Sidebottom came into the press room to see where all the action was going on. Not wanting to miss the opportunity, you can judge who has the bigger cranium for yourself.

16:25 - Urban Splash impact on Manchester - chance and accident. This is a recurring theme, it seems. Saville talked earlier about how Factory was just a bunch of people doing what they wanted, looking forwards and not backwards, whilst keeping it interesting. But chance and accident need to be navigated…need to be grabbed, or they’ll pass you by. “Lucky people are successful people”.

I suppose, for the talent dotted around the tent, listening, the message is always going to be follow what you think is the right path, the right thing to do.

Saville is making a nice point here. Urban Splash are keeping the ethos of Factory going - doing as much as they can, as opposed to doing it as cheaply as they can. I suppose when we look at the history of Factory, particularly in light of the case study that I’m determined to commission, this is a nice working title. Factory: Doing as much as it can.

Of course there’s a myriad of subtitles we could string under there, but we’ll leave that to the imagination.

16:45 - Peter Saville is talking about the Manchester Music Archive. I’ve not come across this meme before, but he’s ruminating about some sort of a Centre for Contemporary Arts. This is about recognising what cities have in the now, or the recent past before they destroy it. The Hacienda is a case in point, but as someone said before, the Hacienda meant nothing to most people. I suppose we could say that about any building. Recognising value in the here and now is incredibly difficult it seems.

But, the digerati can play a significant role here. Social tools give us the capability to archive what’s happening now and build an understanding of the current value of the artefacts around the city. We build a current understanding by engaging with the people who actively use or are influenced by their surroundings. The history of the Hacienda is anecdotal…there isn’t that much in the way of an archive of what that building meant to people who went there.

Sure, we can talk to people like Mrs Carruthers and get anecdotal evidence. But, if we could have captured and entered into a dialogue about the Hacienda, at the time, would the future of that building been different?

OK, so sounds like I’m advocating social media changing the world and maybe that’s naive. But if we follow Peter Saville’s point about better understanding the current value of a city’s cultural icons (be they buildings, people or just movements), I think there’s a valuable role for social media in that mix.

Plus, his vision about a Centre for Cultural Arts is a conversation that i4SM should try to get involved with.

-pc.

Ok, here we go again. I needed a sandwich…and I’ve missed the first 15 minutes. Shoot me, I’m human.

Not much to pick up on here, but Coogan saying that perhaps we shouldn’t forget the roots of Manchester creativity. The grime, the industry and picking itself up by it’s bootstraps has defined how Manchester looks nowadays. But hey that’s progress and to echo his second thought we shouldn’t get too reminiscent about 1970’s Manchester.

Paul Robinson (sat next to me) was just chatting about how Tony Wilson was villified, almost hated around the place for most of his broadcast life. As we mentioned earlier, it was cool to bash Wilson when we were younger. But, I don’t think we really knew much about the guy…after all, I was a kid in Lytham. I never went to the Hacienda, only picked up on New order and Joy Division late in the day and rarely visited Manchester.

I often say that when I did come to this fair city, that I was taken aback that everyone knew my name. “alright pal”, they;d say and I’d mistake it for Paul. Yeah, yeah…small town kid, funny Manc accents and all that.

Yet, I still would say that Tony Wilson was an idiot. A weird fashion, granted, but it was almost fashionable.

14:30 - whoah, we’re 30 minutes in. Maconie prompts “What would Wilson think of this event?” A series of contradictions…anti-establishment…so how do you create something that fits in with that ethos?

And how does Manchester remember him? Statue…

Again, not much to pick up on that hasn’t been said before. So, I’m going to return to the thread above.

After his death, there’s almost a deification of Tony Wilson in the city. Obviously, people couldn’t see the impact he was having, whilst he was doing it, but after the fact it’s been clear to see. I’m not going to go over it again, but I’ll share this photograph with you.

I took this at the exhibition at Urbis last year. It sums up the very real effect that Tony Wilson had on ordinary peoples lives. ‘Nuff said.

14:55 - Amazing interjection from the floor recalling how in the ‘jolson era’ there was a pub on Mill St that use to have Al Jolson competitions. Now, it seems to have little relevance to the proceedings but what a fantastic comment. Did anyone out there catch what that was all about?

I have to take a break now else my head will explode. Will be back at 4pm. Sharp.

-pc.

I wonder what Wilson would have made of social media? I’d bet he’d be there, right in the centre of what’s happening in Manchester and getting his hands dirty. Embrace it? Of course. Feel threatened by it? Unlikely.

I also think he’d be right there at the beginning of i4SM and driving it forward.

13:10 - Stuart Maconie is late…and Mark Radcliffe is 50. He’s also telling porkies about the press rooms screens not working. Elliot Rashman stepping in for Maconie.

Getting into small radio stations was a better route into the industry than being a researcher at the BBC. Recalling how you could just get stuff done, by weedling your way around the organisation. Piccadilly Radio back in the day reflected this - Mancunia music just wasn’t being played. But Radcliffe was able to get into the playlist after pestering to get on the air. Eventually they got two hours one day to play A Certain Ratio, followed by the local cricket scores!

Rashman asking how the radio nowadays can get by without even having human DJ’s during the day! It’s an interesting one. Technology has replaced the old style DJ’s because after all, XFM etc are commercial stations - the bottom line is king, and replacing DJ’s with pre-recorded ‘junk’ helps the bottom line.

Even I’ve been one of XFM’s DJ’s. I kid not. Link to follow.

13:15 - here’s an echo for i4SM’s ideals. Tony and Mark Radcliffe both massive proponents of the North and Manchester in particular. You shouldn’t have to go to London - there’s a massive pool of talent, creativity and drive up here and Manchester needs to stick it’s head above the parapet a bit more.

That’s me speaking. But Radcliffe, Wilson and i4SM have the same goal at heart.

13:20 - Maconie: Wilson felt that if you didn’t have people who thought you were wrong, then you weren’t doing something right! Radcliffe…”Yeah, I lost 2million listeners from the Radio 1 breakfast show.” Applause…and just because it didn’t work, doesn’t mean you were wrong. That’s the spirit. That’s the kind of attitude we need more around the country…its a trait that Americans have in spades.

Indeed, business schools will tell you…fail twice to succeed in business.

Radcliffe is eminently entertaining. Effortless in his northern-ness and a genuine nature that justsmakes you want to go out for a pint with him. That’s a digression.

13:25 - Wilson saw Factory Records as being in the lineage of great northern creations. The canals, industrial revolution and the new Joy Division album. Hey and why not? Manchester needed a leap of faith and Wilson was keen on ensuring that it took the leap.

Look around you. Perhaps Wilson had a profound effect on what has been the Manchester renaissance, giving us a peek at the “bright lights of possibility into a bleak landscape”. Manchester has a wonderful history of invention…yet we could argue that it doesn’t capitalise. Baby (the first memory capable computer) is an interesting case in point. The first computer music (early MP3 here)…let’s break that down - Manchester invents the computerand ends up with a massive music industry. This is Manchester.

The US takes the computer and forms a huge new industrial and service sector for the rest of the world. They get Silicon Valley. We get Factory Records. Which is better? The world would always have had the computer…but perhaps not Factory Records.

13:35 - Lovely story from Radcliffe about Wilson bringing Blue Monday into Piccadilly Radio and demanding he played it immediately. Not the A-sde though…the instrumental B-side! After 7 or 8 minutes…well, you get the picture.

Interesting Wilson theory. His cycle was 13 years…1963, 1976, 1989 - seismic ripples in the music industry. Wilson takes on  Schumpeter anyone?

13:50 - Lovely comment on the mogulus channel. “Wilson - the author of Manchester”. I’ve had a lingering thought for a while that Manchester Business School should have a case study on Tony Wilson and the Factory. We should do that…it’s a small way that MBS could bring his ‘experience’ to the MBA’s. It may be how not to run a business, but it would be about life. Let’s discuss that.

13:55 - Summing up the last five minutes - the media industry is disconnected with their audiences. The demographics that radio stations base their audience on are flawed. There are changes happening out amongst the listeners/viewers that are not understood by the controllers. Go figure.

14:00 - and relax.

Somewhat irritatingly Wordpress won’t accept iFrames in the post, so I’m just going to do updates every few minutes or so. Coveritlive would have been greate as it constantly refreshes. Never mind. I’m sure there’s a technical way around it.

So, I’m sat in the press room here at Urbis. Not much sign of activity right now, but then there’s 30 minutes to go.

So, up first is Steve Coogan, Alex Poots and Peter Saville.

Some background if you aren’t aware…Steve Coogan - think Alan Partridge, Paul Calf, Pauline Calf…acclaimed mancunian comedian…somewhat controversial during his career (but that’s not for me to comment upon) and a guy who has brought much mirth to the TV in the last few years.

Peter Saville, iconic designer responsible for much of the Factory artistic direction through the 80’s and 90’s - take a look at Joy Divisions Closer and many of the New Order classic album covers. Saville was a major collaborator with Wilson and remains a strong creative force in the UK.

11:55 - Still waiting for signs of action…whilst the AV guys fix their feed into Second Life.

12:10 - Action. Waiting for audio feed from the Pavilion! Hmmm, missed the start…the only thing I can tell you right now is that Steve Coogan has had his hair cut. Hopefully the audio feed will start to come through soon.

12:35 - just nipped back from the Pavilion…feed now on. Going to be interesting to see how they keep this going for 24 hours is my first perception.

Right now we’re getting the skinny from Messrs Coogan and Saville about Tony Wilson. The ‘older brother to an entire generation” is how SC summed him up. He recalled one of my early memories of TW - the fact that everyone said they thought he was an idiot. It was cool to say he was such. Coogan muses that perhaps this is because we felt we were cooler than him. Hmm.

When 24hr Party People was released, there was a story about Wilson being irritated that the poster called him a ****. Not because it called him in this way, but because the poster was toned down!! *will dig out the link for you when I get a chance.

12:40 - Comments from the TWE feed aren’t exactly complementary right now.  I think Coogan is quite amusing (no surprise), but he could do with letting Peter Saville get a word in!

12:45 - Coogan on 24hr Party People. Wanted TW to appear like a flawed hero. Someone we could laugh at and laugh with.

12:50 - It’s really quite difficult to comment on what is going on in this environment. Apologies. May have to find another location to work from!

Saville ruminating about the amazing effect that Wilson and ‘a few other people’ had when basically they were just doing what they wanted to do. “Just do it” don’t worry about where it’s going and what’s going to happen. If you do that you won’t do anything. Profound from Mr Saville.

Wilson wasn’t entirely happy with how 24Hr came out, but his belief in other’s vision and artistic freedom let it ride.

13:00 - The first hour is over. Not quite sure what to make of that really. The technical difficulties didn’t help.

First up, is that it’s going to be interesting to see how they can keep this going for 24hrs. It’s a challenging format and kudos for giving it a go, but I’m wondering how much staying power the creatives who are here are going to have. Time will tell.

Second. The recollections of Tony certainly chime with my own as a kid growing up. More later.

Tomorrow brings the 24hr Conversation to the i4SM blog. I’ll be at Reification -  the Tony Wilson Experience and blogging throughout the time I’m there.

Carefully grafted from the official website, here’s what the experience is all about:

The Tony Wilson Experience - billed as the longest ever intelligent conversation - is a chance for young, talented people with an interest in the creative arts to take part in a non-stop, 24 hour series of workshops with some of the biggest names from the music industry, screenwriting, broadcasting, writing, design, photography and film. Staged in memory of the late broadcaster and cultural entrepreneur, and supported by Manchester City Council, the sessions will be challenging, inspirational and at times experimental.

So, I’ll be there, squeezed into the press area, milling about outside the tent and dipping through the green room (I hope) trying to catch a flavour of the day.

In addition, the event will be streamed into Second Life (go to One Manchester) and on the official website.

It’s going to be an interesting day. Not sure whether I’ll be covering the entire 24 hours just yet…

The tool I’ll be using to blog about each conversation is coveritlive…so if you do happen to be here tomorrow, you’ll be able to interact directly with the blog. After the fact, you’ll be able to relive my blogathon in all it’s glory.

-pc.